{"id":29133,"date":"2021-03-26T09:21:54","date_gmt":"2021-03-26T13:21:54","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/?p=29133"},"modified":"2024-08-31T08:54:30","modified_gmt":"2024-08-31T12:54:30","slug":"vted-reads-brave-like-that","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/vted-reads-brave-like-that\/","title":{"rendered":"#vted Reads: Brave Like That"},"content":{"rendered":"<audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-29133-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Lindsey_Stoddard_Brave_Like_That.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Lindsey_Stoddard_Brave_Like_That.mp3\">https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-content\/uploads\/2021\/03\/Lindsey_Stoddard_Brave_Like_That.mp3<\/a><\/audio>\n<p>Are you wear-your-mask-in-a-pandemic brave, listeners? Or get-vaccinated-when-needles-scare-you brave? On this episode of the podcast, we&#8217;re joined by Vermont author and educator Lindsey Stoddard, who&#8217;s here to talk about her new middle grades book, <em>Brave Like That.<\/em> We&#8217;ll talk about the many different kinds of brave you can be, along with how students know that tiny acts &#8212; of kindness, of effort, and of honesty &#8212; make all the difference in the world.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m Jeanie Phillips, and this is #vted Reads, a podcast of books by, for, and with Vermont educators.<\/p>\n<p>Let&#8217;s chat.<\/p>\n<p><strong style=\"font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif;\">Jeanie:<\/strong><span style=\"font-family: -apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, 'Segoe UI', Roboto, Oxygen-Sans, Ubuntu, Cantarell, 'Helvetica Neue', sans-serif;\"> Thank you so much for joining me, Lindsey. \u00a0Tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Hi. \u00a0Well, thank you so much for having me. \u00a0I\u2019m so honored to be here to chat with you about <em>Brave Like That<\/em>. \u00a0I\u2019m Lindsey Stoddard. Now, I was born and raised in Vermont and then spent 12 years living and teaching in Washington Heights, New York City and have since returned with my young family back to Vermont which feels it feels really wonderful to be here. And I have a three year old and a four year old son. So I\u2019m very much a full time mom. \u00a0But I\u2019m also a middle grade author.\u00a0 <em>Brave Like That<\/em> was my third middle grade novel. \u00a0The fourth one comes out in May. \u00a0So, that\u2019s exciting too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Congratulations!\u00a0 Can you just name for us your other two books and your forthcoming book?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Sure! Yeah, my first book was called <em>Just Like Jackie<\/em> and the second one is <em>Right as Rain<\/em> and the next one that\u2019s coming out in May is called <em>B Is For Blended<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Beautiful. \u00a0So, were both of your previous books on the Vermont Middle Grades Book Award list?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Just Like Jackie was. \u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0I thought it was excellent. \u00a0Thank you so much for joining us to talk about this book which I loved.\u00a0 But before we get to that, what are you reading right now? \u00a0What\u2019s on your nightstand table or maybe what are you reading?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:\u00a0<\/strong> You know I just finished last night the amazing\u00a0 <em>All Thirteen<\/em> by Christina Soontornvat.\u00a0 It\u2019s the true account of the Thai Boys soccer team rescue from a flooded cave in Thailand. It is riveting. \u00a0She does a wonderful job storytelling.\u00a0 Even though I like, I knew the ending because I had followed the story in the news, it was just like edge of your seat reading. \u00a0She did a great job.\u00a0 That was wonderful.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> Oh, my goodness, thank you for adding that to my to be read list.\u00a0 It was really good.<\/p>\n<p>So, I just loved that this book just captured so much about middle school.\u00a0 But before we start talking about the way in which it just rang so true, could you introduce us to Cyrus? Our main character in the book?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Of course. \u00a0Yes, Cyrus is the main character in <em>Brave Like That. T<\/em>he book opens on his 11th birthday. We know that he, as a baby, was dropped off the on the front step of a firehouse in Northfield, Minnesota.\u00a0 He was adopted by one of the firefighters inside, Brooks Olson.\u00a0 And Brooks Olson is not just a legend in this town for being a brave firefighter but he\u2019s also a legend for being an amazing football player. \u00a0He holds records in the middle school and in the high school in town where Cyrus will be attending.<\/p>\n<p>Everyone just sort of assumes that Cyrus will be the next best wide receiver in the league. \u00a0And no one knows that Cyrus doesn\u2019t have any interest in being a wide receiver at all. He just doesn\u2019t feel like he\u2019s brave like his dad.<\/p>\n<p>Like, he\u2019s not brave like run-into-burning-buildings brave or brave like full-tackle-football brave.\u00a0 So, this is a story about him figuring out what is really deep down in him. What kind of brave he really is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> That\u2019s just so middle school, right?\u00a0 Like, this is really a story about Cyrus finding who he is apart from his family. Apart from his father.\u00a0 And also feeling good about that as opposed to feeling like,<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;What if it\u2019s not okay if this is who I am?&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:\u00a0<\/strong> Exactly! Yeah, I think middle school is a lot of that. \u00a0It\u2019s a lot of looking outward and sort of comparing yourself to everybody else. \u00a0But then also, that that look inward and trying to figure out where do I fit and who am I truly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie: \u00a0<\/strong>Yes.\u00a0 We\u2019re going to talk more about that and belonging as well because that\u2019s a huge theme in this book that really warmed me and made me think a lot. \u00a0But before we do that, could, I wondered if you could read from Pages 97 and 98, as Cyrus is heading to his first day of sixth grade?<\/p>\n<div class=\"epyt-video-wrapper\">\n<div  style=\"display: block; margin: 0px auto;\"  id=\"_ytid_42788\"  width=\"525\" height=\"295\"  data-origwidth=\"525\" data-origheight=\"295\" data-facadesrc=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/Esjz1eTsguU?enablejsapi=1&#038;autoplay=0&#038;cc_load_policy=1&#038;cc_lang_pref=&#038;iv_load_policy=1&#038;loop=0&#038;modestbranding=1&#038;rel=0&#038;fs=1&#038;playsinline=1&#038;autohide=2&#038;theme=dark&#038;color=red&#038;controls=1&#038;\" class=\"__youtube_prefs__ epyt-facade epyt-is-override  no-lazyload\" data-epautoplay=\"1\" ><img decoding=\"async\" data-spai-excluded=\"true\" class=\"epyt-facade-poster skip-lazy\" loading=\"lazy\"  alt=\"Lindsey Stoddard reads from &quot;Brave Like That&quot;\"  src=\"https:\/\/i.ytimg.com\/vi\/Esjz1eTsguU\/maxresdefault.jpg\"  \/><button class=\"epyt-facade-play\" aria-label=\"Play\"><svg data-no-lazy=\"1\" height=\"100%\" version=\"1.1\" viewBox=\"0 0 68 48\" width=\"100%\"><path class=\"ytp-large-play-button-bg\" d=\"M66.52,7.74c-0.78-2.93-2.49-5.41-5.42-6.19C55.79,.13,34,0,34,0S12.21,.13,6.9,1.55 C3.97,2.33,2.27,4.81,1.48,7.74C0.06,13.05,0,24,0,24s0.06,10.95,1.48,16.26c0.78,2.93,2.49,5.41,5.42,6.19 C12.21,47.87,34,48,34,48s21.79-0.13,27.1-1.55c2.93-0.78,4.64-3.26,5.42-6.19C67.94,34.95,68,24,68,24S67.94,13.05,66.52,7.74z\" fill=\"#f00\"><\/path><path d=\"M 45,24 27,14 27,34\" fill=\"#fff\"><\/path><\/svg><\/button><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong>\u00a0 Sure, of course. \u00a0Here we have Cyrus entering sixth grade middle school.<\/p>\n<p>&#8220;Even though, I\u2019ve known almost everyone in my sixth grade class since pre K, I\u2019m feeling a little sweaty and uncomfortable and heart pounding like I do when I\u2019m under my football pads. \u00a0My hands are all fumbling too which isn\u2019t good because it\u2019s hard enough to understand this schedule without my hands shaking the paper all over the place.<\/p>\n<p>I have home room in 102 with Mr. Hewett, who is also my English teacher.\u00a0 Even though I already know where that is, the halls aren\u2019t quiet and empty now like they were when I faked a bathroom trip during tryouts.\u00a0 And that new clean smell is already gone. \u00a0Now, it\u2019s crowded with lots of kids who are all taller than 4 ft.8 inches.\u00a0 And shouting ones another\u2019s names.\u00a0 You cut your hair.\u00a0 And you got your braces off. Instead of smelling like the cleaner we used to scrub the firehouse floor, it smells like the puffs of cologne that salespeople spray when you walk through the department stores in the Mall of America.<\/p>\n<p>And I\u2019m wondering if you\u2019re supposed to start wearing cologne in middle school and how do you figure something like that out. \u00a0I see a couple kids from last year and they already seem to know where they\u2019re going. \u00a0No one else is holding a schedule and they\u2019re all fist bumping and asking how summer was. \u00a0I see Marcus and Shane talking with some of the big kids from tryouts, the A team.\u00a0 I wave.\u00a0 But they don\u2019t see me. \u00a0And between us is a crowd of 7th and 8th graders who are comparing arm tans and sipping out of to go cups from the coffee shop on Division Street. \u00a0I guess you start drinking coffee in middle school too.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Oh my goodness, that took me back to myself in middle school. \u00a0And the question I had was like how am I supposed to know if I\u2019m supposed to start wearing deodorant and do I have to ask for it or will somebody just buy it for me? \u00a0Like that, just felt so real to me.\u00a0 The bodies are all growing at different rates.\u00a0 Some kids are little and some kids are big and\u2026<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah, you know, I love middle school. \u00a0That\u2019s what I taught when I was in New York City. \u00a0And just there\u2019s so much, there\u2019s so much change and there\u2019s just, their sense of justice is really high and their emotions are really big.\u00a0 It\u2019s just, it\u2019s so exciting. \u00a0A little a little rollercoaster sometimes. \u00a0But there\u2019s so much potential and so much excitement in that age that, you know, it was really when I was teaching middle school in New York City that I realized this is the audience I wanted to write for. \u00a0I wanted to write middle grade because their hearts are just so open and ready. There\u2019s just so much excitement.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah.\u00a0 But there\u2019s this other piece, right. \u00a0Like, the changing bodies, the changing habits, kids coming, the changing clothes and their care about how they look. \u00a0But there\u2019s this other piece that you really capture here which is belonging or lack of belonging.\u00a0 One of the things, I guess I\u2019m wondering about is you captured this notion of like when the, Cyrus enters the circle of girls actually in an earlier in the book and they immediately help him feel like he belongs.\u00a0 Then in other places, he feels like really like he doesn\u2019t belong. \u00a0And I\u2019m not sure that middle school kids are always intentional about pushing someone else out.\u00a0 They\u2019re all just eager to belong.\u00a0 They\u2019re trying to belong in any way they can.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Is that your sense too?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong>\u00a0 Absolutely.\u00a0 You know, I think, you know as I was saying before that there\u2019s, there\u2019s so much outward looking in middle school.\u00a0 You know, from the second you arrive, you\u2019re sort of looking and comparing and, oh my gosh, she got so tall over summer. \u00a0And you know she has the same shoes as I do, is that okay? \u00a0Is that not cool, like?\u00a0 There\u2019s a lot of that outward looking.<\/p>\n<p>Then also the inward looking of sort of wait, who am I? \u00a0What do I actually really love to do? \u00a0Do I, do I love football or do I just love the friends that are on the football team? \u00a0Do I even like those friends anymore and just a lot of those inward looking questions, thinking too? \u00a0And I do play with the idea of circles in the book. \u00a0You know there\u2019s the circle of the seven girls that that joined him at the Humane Society.\u00a0 The Humane Society Seven and they do have a very insular friendship. \u00a0There\u2019s the seven of them but they do have a beautiful way of moving that they don\u2019t push anyone out or exclude anyone.<\/p>\n<p>And I wanted Cyrus to feel the difference between that kind of a circle and the kind of circle he feels with the football players in school, who, you know, he feels pulled in by them. \u00a0But then he feels other people being pushed out by them.\u00a0 I wanted him to be able to compare those two kinds of circles and you know sort of how we include or exclude people and how that feels.\u00a0 That happened so much in middle school.\u00a0 Intentionally or not, it really does. \u00a0So, I was playing with the idea of circles there.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0It\u2019s interesting though because it\u2019s happening at middle school. \u00a0It\u2019s happening amongst the different groups that Cyrus is and isn\u2019t a part of. \u00a0But it\u2019s also happening in his out of school life at the firehouse.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey: \u00a0<\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> Cyrus is seeing it happening with his peers and then he\u2019s also seeing it happen with his firehouse family which is his father and the other firefighters, when a new firefighter Sam joins the squad. \u00a0I love Sam so much. \u00a0I wonder if you could talk a little bit. \u00a0Doesn\u2019t give anything away if we talk about Sam?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0No, you know, I don\u2019t think so. \u00a0I think you could talk a little bit about Sam.<\/p>\n<p>Yeah, you know, I wanted so Cyrus is he grows up in the firehouse.<\/p>\n<p>So, he has his dad and he\u2019s got the firefighters who have been a part of his life from the time literally that he was dropped on their doorstep. \u00a0And he begins to notice the way that they move and the way that they talk when a new firefighter shows up and they\u2019re expecting it to be another male firefighter. \u00a0And it\u2019s not.\u00a0 It\u2019s Sam. <em>Samantha<\/em>, the firefighter who shows up. All the guys\u2019 kind of react in their own ways. \u00a0And Cyrus is very much aware of how each one reacts.<\/p>\n<p>And in particular one named Leo. Cyrus is watching as the men sort of fumble through that experience.<\/p>\n<p>Also with the football team, a new boy that shows up in his school, named Eduardo.<\/p>\n<p>And how the kids on his football team, the kids in his class, the kids who he, who had been friends his friends forever are responding to that too. So he has these two experiences side by side.\u00a0 He does realize that, you know, if that that you know boys like Marcus and Shane who are uttering and sort of subtly bullying at Eduardo can grow up and become men like Leo.\u00a0 He\u2019s watching that happen. \u00a0So, I think there\u2019s a powerful connection there between the boys and the men in the book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0I definitely thought the words more than once while I was reading. \u00a0Oh, toxic masculinity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey: \u00a0<\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> This is showing the growth of toxic masculinity both in the way that the young men treat Eduardo.\u00a0 Also, Cyrus when he doesn\u2019t behave the way they expect or want him to be.\u00a0 Then also Leo and his weight lifting and his sexist comments to Sam. I definitely thought that would be a really interesting thing to talk about.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong>\u00a0 Yeah. \u00a0You know, because there\u2019s this idea of, you know, Cyrus doesn\u2019t feel like he\u2019s run into a burning building Brave.<\/p>\n<p>There\u2019s this idea of fires and how quickly they spread.\u00a0 He knows that from the way that he grew up in the firehouse.\u00a0 That\u2019s also taken into the school.\u00a0 This idea that he knows how fast fires can spread.\u00a0 Cyrus starts to see the bullying like a fire.\u00a0 He knows that, you know, he\u2019s got to be somebody who puts out this fire before it spreads.\u00a0 And that is extremely hard.\u00a0 It is really, really hard. \u00a0I think it\u2019s one of the hardest things when you know friends that you have known your whole life are starting to act in ways that feel really uncool and really icky. \u00a0And he doesn\u2019t, you know? It is hard to be the person to say that\u2019s not cool. Like, that needs to stop.<\/p>\n<p>In the book, Cyrus figures out a really a really great way of including his whole class in this conversation about sort of celebrating differences. \u00a0I think he finds a good way a simple, very Cyrus way of addressing that. \u00a0But he doesn\u2019t want this fire to spread in his class. \u00a0He&#8217;s not firefighter-brave, but really he does. And he does figure out how to put out some fires which is really great by the end.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0He figures out, how to be an up stander in a way that\u2019s true to himself? I love that that was &#8212; part of his inspiration is, you know, his father and the firefighters and specifically Sam.\u00a0 How, Sam becomes an upstander in her way.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:\u00a0<\/strong> Yes.\u00a0 Yeah, she is. \u00a0She is a definitely a strong character.\u00a0 So much of the book is about what kind of brave you are. \u00a0I wanted there to be a couple different examples of courage.\u00a0 And Sam was really one of one of the characters I was thinking of.\u00a0 Brooks, his dad really is as a supportive strong guy too. \u00a0And as we know his grandmother, you know. \u00a0So, there are a few really supportive and also like examples of bravery.\u00a0 Eduardo himself, you know, he\u2019s you know as he\u2019s a really great example of courage and how he stands up on his own.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Oh, I want to talk about all these characters.\u00a0 But let\u2019s talk about Eduardo.\u00a0 I\u2019m thinking about Eduardo speaks Spanish. \u00a0He is very small like I don\u2019t know the word other than small.\u00a0 One of the things I really admired about Cyrus, and how he becomes friends with Eduardo is, the small moves he makes for inclusivity. \u00a0So, he sits next to Eduardo.\u00a0 He start, he shares a locker with Eduardo.\u00a0 But he also starts to realize like, oh Eduardo speak Spanish.\u00a0 This other person hadn\u2019t thought about it. \u00a0But she speaks Spanish and maybe I could learn some Spanish from her.\u00a0 There are these little moves he makes to sort of signal that he wants to make an inclusive space for Eduardo.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey: \u00a0<\/strong>Absolutely.\u00a0 You also see through those moves that you mentioned, how, it\u2019s not, it\u2019s not exactly easy for him to sit next to Eduardo in the beginning. \u00a0You know, he still has his eyes on how our Marcus and Shane going to react, if I sit next to Eduardo or, you know, Marcus and Shane tried to pull Cyrus into their locker buddy ship, you know, like the three of us can share. \u00a0So, you don\u2019t have to share with Eduardo and it puts Cyrus in this weird position.\u00a0 And it takes them a little while to say no, no, it\u2019s okay. \u00a0I\u2019ll share the locker with Eduardo.<\/p>\n<p>So, you know I think there are these little moments that that are really hard and seemingly small but they make such big differences in steps toward inclusive behavior. \u00a0You know like, I think it\u2019s just it\u2019s hard and it\u2019s important. You can tell that Cyrus really does think Eduardo is kind of cool and wants to be friends with him.\u00a0 But it is these little tiny steps are hard and he has his eyes on the bullies the whole time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah.\u00a0 He\u2019s worried that associating with Eduardo will mean he gets bullied as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey: \u00a0<\/strong>Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> But that he won\u2019t feel a sense of belonging as well. \u00a0I really appreciated that inward struggle he goes through and how clearly you paint that on the page.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey: \u00a0<\/strong>No, thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie: \u00a0<\/strong>The other character I want to make sure we talk about is Cyrus\u2019s grandmother, Brooke\u2019s mother.\u00a0 Cyrus has a really lovely relationship with his grandmother. \u00a0Could you tell us a little bit about her?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah. \u00a0I love writing grandparent characters. \u00a0They\u2019re one of my favorite secondary characters to write.\u00a0 Actually three of my four books, there are characters, the grandparents are very like central characters of the book. \u00a0But for Cyrus, I wanted to give him someone. \u00a0So for Cyrus, he\u2019s a kid that has a lot of secrets in his heart. \u00a0He holds a secret that he struggles with reading.\u00a0 And he hasn\u2019t told his dad that.\u00a0 He hasn\u2019t figured out how to tell his teachers that. \u00a0He holds that secret of, you know, I don\u2019t really love football but I\u2019m not quite sure how to say that yet. \u00a0I\u2019m not quite sure how to move on from that.<\/p>\n<p>I wanted to give him a character, a grown-up who could see right into his heart and was very ready to support him, when he was ready to make those big statements.\u00a0 To come out and say, this is actually who I am. In the book that she is right there waiting for him to be his strong self.\u00a0 They do have an interesting way of communicating because she has had a stroke. \u00a0The right side of her body is paralyzed and she\u2019s lost the ability to speak, lost the ability to speak.\u00a0 So she speaks in in syllables: na-na-na.\u00a0 It\u2019s a way of communicating that is like it\u2019s directly heart-to-heart is how, how the feeling, you know.<\/p>\n<p>And I know that very well because my own nana growing up, my mom\u2019s mom, had a stroke and paralyzed the right side of her body. It took away her ability to speak. \u00a0She was just an example of courage to me as her granddaughter growing up, just watching her never ever give up. \u00a0She never stopped trying to let us know exactly what it was that she was saying.\u00a0 Even when I didn\u2019t know what the words were, like, I knew what she wanted me to feel.<\/p>\n<p>I wanted to give Cyrus, someone like that.<\/p>\n<p>Someone, who could you know na-na-na a feeling right into his heart.\u00a0 That\u2019s who she is for him.\u00a0 She\u2019s also an example of courage. \u00a0She\u2019s just a really brave woman who has to overcome a big thing.\u00a0 And she learns how to be even more courageous by the end of the book. \u00a0So, it\u2019s watching her relationship with Cyrus is growth for both of them. \u00a0And I just I love their relationship too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0It\u2019s so beautiful and it makes sense to me that you had a grandparent like that in your life because that relationship feels so tangible as I was reading it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0They both, you know, they both have something that in common that\u2019s in their hearts. \u00a0And that, you know, I don\u2019t want to give it away like what Cyrus is real true passion is.\u00a0 But he\u2019s a lot like his grandmother.\u00a0 He\u2019s always worried about like what\u2019s being passed down to me because, you know, I was adopted.\u00a0 I don\u2019t know you know what\u2019s supposed to be coming through my blood and what supposed to be coming through my dad.\u00a0 He has this connection with his grandmother through music. \u00a0And there\u2019s something that\u2019s bigger to hear that his grandmother really sees in him and he feels like he got from her.\u00a0 So that\u2019s a really special connection too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Yes.\u00a0 She is fierce in her love and also in her generosity with him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong>\u00a0 And she is slowly handing her record collection over to him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah, I know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just, yes. \u00a0So, there\u2019s another character another adult character in this book who we should talk about.\u00a0 That\u2019s Mr. Hewett, the sixth grade language arts teacher.<\/p>\n<p>And I believe that reading young adult and middle grade fiction that involves teachers and schools helps us learn a lot as educators, right. \u00a0Like, I think we can see ourselves on the page in ways that can help us grow. \u00a0So, let\u2019s talk a little bit about Mr. Hewett and his love of picture books.\u00a0 How he shares them every day. \u00a0I wonder if we might even read a little section from Page 108.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:\u00a0<\/strong> Sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> Okay.\u00a0 Let\u2019s see.\u00a0 It\u2019s on the bottom of 109.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong>\u00a0 &#8220;Mr. Hewett pulls out a picture book and we all start to giggle. \u00a0What?\u00a0 He says.\u00a0 Can\u2019t a grown guy love a picture book? \u00a0Then he leans right in and whispers. \u00a0I\u2019m going to tell you a secret. \u00a0I love picture books more than I love ice cream. \u00a0He\u2019s smiling a big smile that makes his eyes crinkle. \u00a0And I can tell it\u2019s the truth. \u00a0It\u2019s not a fake. \u00a0He rubs the cover of the book and says, you all think you\u2019re too big for picture books. \u00a0But let me tell you something, you\u2019re not. \u00a0No one is.&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong>\u00a0 I just love that every day in this classroom he shares a picture book in one way or another. \u00a0Often, it\u2019s him reading the picture book aloud.\u00a0 But he finds other ways to share picture books. \u00a0I love that you name actual picture books that are wonderful. \u00a0I also love that there\u2019s this sixth grade quality that I\u2019m a former school librarian. \u00a0So, I read many picture books to sixth graders. I completely felt this thing that you write about which is that the kids all pretend that they\u2019re not interested, that they roll their eyes and their like, it\u2019s so silly that he\u2019s reading a picture book and their whole bodies are leaning in and hanging on every word.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> So I, I just, what was your inspiration?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey: \u00a0<\/strong>Yeah, you know, I mean I love picture books. I used them as a teacher for sixth, seventh and eighth graders.\u00a0 I obviously read them all the time now with my three and four year old.\u00a0 And the picture books that are being published now are just, they are beautiful and fresh and exciting.\u00a0 I just love them. \u00a0I really just love picture books.\u00a0 Also, I was really inspired by Jillian Heise, who\u2019s an educator and a librarian.\u00a0 She started this idea that happened, it\u2019s a real thing called #ClassroomBookADay.\u00a0 It\u2019s the idea that you as a as a teacher and educator, you read one picture book every day to your class.<\/p>\n<p>On average you have 180 stories that are now a part of your classroom community and just the opportunity for diversity, you know, for new voices and different experiences and authors that come from different backgrounds and characters that come from different backgrounds.<\/p>\n<p>You know if you have 180 of these stories in your class by the end of the year, you\u2019re not only learning about all those different experiences and hearing from their voices.\u00a0 But you\u2019re also creating culture and community in your classroom around them.<\/p>\n<p>So that, when there are things that come up like bullying like in Cyrus\u2019s class or uttering like things like that, you can talk about the characters in the picture book because that\u2019s it\u2019s easier to talk about characters than it is to talk about your own self or your friends or your class.<\/p>\n<p>I just I think it\u2019s really powerful to have stories, lots of stories, a wide variety of stories that live in your classroom in that way. \u00a0So I wanted to give Cyrus that opportunity to sort of see some of the issues that are happening in his class in the stories. \u00a0And some of the things that are happening for himself, you know, with the picture book, he read when he\u2019s like, oh yeah, I think I might be mislabeled too.<\/p>\n<p>He can kind of talk about himself or think about himself or the things that are happening in his class but through the stories and through the characters of other books.\u00a0 So I, just, I just love picture books for that. \u00a0I think they\u2019re really powerful used in all grades. \u00a0I think they\u2019re powerful. \u00a0And so I wanted to give him that. \u00a0I also wanted to give him a really positive experience with reading, you know, because he struggled so much with his own reading comprehension that.\u00a0 I wanted him to love it.<\/p>\n<p>Really, I wanted him to have an experience of loving reading and loving books.\u00a0 And he gets he gets to really love some of these stories and that helps him through his challenges of reading independently.\u00a0 It gives Eduardo a chance to be a sort of hero too because Eduardo is the first one that says, well, I love this picture book and this is awesome. That gives Cyrus a little bit more chance to say, yeah, me too, you know. \u00a0So, I think there\u2019s a lot through the picture books.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Eduardo really shows his bravery by writing his book report on the book, I love most about one of the picture books.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yes.\u00a0 Ones that speak very much to him.\u00a0 Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> And to Cyrus.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey: \u00a0<\/strong>Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0I love that the way you talked about picture books is like third things as ways to, as safe ways to talk about concepts about concepts of identity or who am I. \u00a0How am I showing up? \u00a0How, is it okay to be like me? \u00a0Because one of the books is <a href=\"https:\/\/www.goodreads.com\/book\/show\/178955.Oliver_Button_Is_a_Sissy?from_search=true&amp;from_srp=true&amp;qid=UDmXOWonm7&amp;rank=1\"><em>Oliver Button is a Sissy<\/em><\/a>. Is that the name?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey: \u00a0<\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong>\u00a0 I get it that right. \u00a0Yeah. \u00a0And so it just gives this opportunity for the whole class to explore this notion of the different ways we can show up authentically as ourselves.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey<\/strong>: \u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah.\u00a0 The picture book I want them to read.\u00a0 The picture book I\u2019m currently in love with is <em>We Are Water Protectors<\/em>, have you seen that one yet?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0I have seen it. \u00a0I have not read it yet. \u00a0But I have heard the most amazing things about it. \u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> I\u2019m swooning. \u00a0Let\u2019s talk a little bit about Cyrus and reading.\u00a0 Because he actually, I get the impression about Cyrus from the beginning that he actually really loves stories and books. \u00a0But that he\u2019s ashamed because of his own difficulty with reading. \u00a0Let\u2019s talk, let\u2019s just first describe what his difficulty is?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah, so. \u00a0So, Cyrus has, he\u2019s an excellent reader like he can read the words really well. \u00a0He\u2019s a fluent reader.\u00a0 He feels comfortable doing that. \u00a0It\u2019s the comprehension piece of, you know after I finished reading that page aloud.\u00a0 What did I just read? \u00a0And he can\u2019t, he can\u2019t quite string all the different parts together and remember them and do a retell.\u00a0 Like he\u2019s, he has a hard time with his comprehension. \u00a0But his fluency is really great and this is what gives him the ability to kind of fake his way through.<\/p>\n<p>He\u2019s come up with a bunch of really, he\u2019s a very smart guy.\u00a0 So he\u2019s come up with a bunch of ways to fake his way all the way through the sixth grade without really, really reading a whole book by himself. \u00a0So, he knows, you know, when to raise his hand and volunteer to read out loud because then maybe he won\u2019t be asked a question. \u00a0And you know right when they\u2019re going to do partner work and he has to, you know, talk about something that they just read in class, he knows that\u2019s when he goes to the bathroom.\u00a0 He\u2019s gotten good at faking his way through.<\/p>\n<p>But he does, you know, he does feel shame about it. \u00a0He hasn\u2019t been able to tell his dad or to tell you know his teachers. He\u2019s not quite sure when he\u2019s just going to figure out the reading pieces.\u00a0 And that\u2019s part of the courage he needs to find is the courage to say, I need the help that I deserve. \u00a0I just don\u2019t, I haven\u2019t figured this piece out yet and this is hard. \u00a0This is hard for me.\u00a0 That\u2019s part of the courage he needs to sort of uncover in the book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah. \u00a0It\u2019s interesting. \u00a0I\u2019m a school librarian by training but I\u2019m not that familiar with reading disorders, right.\u00a0 You\u2019re right, he\u2019s an excellent decoder. \u00a0My husband is also an educator and he\u2019s done this hugely deep dive into the neuroscience of reading for the last two years.\u00a0 He\u2019s been really focused on that.\u00a0 So while I was reading this, I stopped. I said, honey, is it, is there a reading disorder where you read fluently but you can\u2019t, you don\u2019t comprehend anything?\u00a0 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.healthline.com\/health\/hyperlexia#:~:text=Hyperlexia%20is%20when%20a%20child,of%20what%20they're%20reading.\">And he was like, yeah<\/a>.\u00a0 Of course.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Okay. \u00a0Is there to like, is there a ways to treat that?\u00a0 He was like, yeah.\u00a0 I was like, okay, okay. \u00a0I guess I wondered had you had a student like that. \u00a0It\u2019s clear you understood this reading disorder.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah. \u00a0Yeah, I definitely had students that struggled in that way that we\u2019re really fluent readers and loved to read out loud. \u00a0But when you did you know sit one on one with them and ask them questions about what they just read, you could kind of see them going trying to go back to the text or finding something to read back out loud to me.\u00a0 So, it\u2019s definitely, it does have a name I think and I\u2019m not sure what it is right now but I did have several students that struggled with it in that way.<\/p>\n<p>You know there\u2019s always the opposite too where you know students, they\u2019re not fluent readers and it sounds like choppy when they come out. Then they tell you this perfect retail everything that they just read and what they think about it.\u00a0 The brain is just, it\u2019s incredible. \u00a0It\u2019s a really incredible thing. \u00a0And yes, I have noticed that.\u00a0 I did think it was a perfect, it fit perfectly for Cyrus because he\u2019s he has faked his way through so much that this is, that this seemed like a perfect thing for him to struggle with because it\u2019s something that he can kind of tuck away and fake.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0He is very clever in all of his fake, right.\u00a0 In also a book reports coming, he knows how to get about it. \u00a0He thinks ahead of time that if the language arts teacher asked him what did you read this summer, he\u2019s going to go oh, I\u2019m in the middle of the fourth Harry Potter.<\/p>\n<p>Like, he\u2019s got all these like strategies and I admired him for that, right.\u00a0 Even though what it meant was that he wasn\u2019t getting the help he needed because he was so good at passing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah.\u00a0 And in the same way for football too, you know, he, he\u2019s in tryouts. \u00a0He doesn\u2019t want to be in tryouts. \u00a0He\u2019s expected to make the A team because his last name is Olson.\u00a0 But he doesn\u2019t want to make the A team. \u00a0He doesn\u2019t even want to make the B team.\u00a0 And he\u2019s out there, you know fumbling passes and you know doing things that he\u2019s like, oh shoot, you know like I Butterfingers this time, you know. \u00a0It\u2019s just such a struggle to see him on the field because you know he doesn\u2019t want to be there and he\u2019s trying to figure out a way to, you know what he thinks will make his dad happy and what will make him happy.\u00a0 He\u2019s perfected the fake.<\/p>\n<p>One of the things that <em>Brave Like That<\/em> the whole book is about is sort of becoming your most authentic true self and just giving up the fakes you know. \u00a0That\u2019s also just what middle school is about. \u00a0It\u2019s a big time for that for figuring out you know where are my most comfortable and what do I love to do and what, you know, what fakes can I just give up right now, yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> I just love this notion that like this big theme of showing up as your authentic self and trusting that people will love you for your authentic self.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:\u00a0<\/strong> Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0So, I want to keep talking about this book forever because &#8212; and I\u2019m so grateful to talk about it because I have been buzzing ever since I finished it this weekend thinking about it. \u00a0But how would you suggest that teachers use this book in the classroom? \u00a0Do you have any hopes for how it might be used?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah. \u00a0You know, I\u2019ve actually spoken to teachers who are and some teachers that are doing some really wonderful things. \u00a0I think one of the things that I think it would be great for is using as a riddle out in the beginning of the school year to kind of set the tone for community. How we can work together to and use this certain language that Cyrus, towards the end of the book, Cyrus comes up with this language that we can use to kind of combat bullying and celebrate it. \u00a0So, celebrate difference, not celebrate bullying.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:\u00a0<\/strong> To celebrate.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:\u00a0<\/strong> To celebrate difference, you know, to move from that sort of tolerance of like, he\u2019s different and that\u2019s okay to &#8212; we all have something that makes us different.\u00a0 And that\u2019s what\u2019s special. \u00a0That\u2019s so cool.\u00a0 Like, that\u2019s something that we can talk about and be, you know, and we can celebrate.\u00a0 So, I think you know if classes were to read this at the beginning of the school year, they might have a common language that they could use when they see some of the bullying that that comes up in classrooms. \u00a0They might remember back to Cyrus classroom.\u00a0 And some of the things that Cyrus said.\u00a0 It might be a good use for community building at the beginning of the year.<\/p>\n<p>I also really, what\u2019s something that I do when I do classroom visits or virtual visits now. \u00a0But is, you know, I put up, I am brave like and then I have students figure out for themselves what kind of brave they are. \u00a0Because Cyrus constantly throughout the book is saying the kinds of brave that he isn\u2019t and then the kinds of brave that he finds out that he is, you know, I\u2019m not run into a burning building brave or you know. \u00a0So, I have students right. \u00a0I am brave like and then finish that sentence.<\/p>\n<p>And some of the things that they came up with are just amazing. \u00a0Like I am brave lived through a pandemic Brave. \u00a0I am brave like take care of my little sister after school Brave. \u00a0You know these statements that are stories all in, they\u2019re all in their own.\u00a0 You know, they\u2019re really wonderful.<\/p>\n<p>So I think that like having some of those present in the classroom, just sentenced strips of.\u00a0 The different ways that we are brave even if they seem small, are really quite big.\u00a0 Sort of celebrate that in in our classrooms.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong>\u00a0 I love and that\u2019s, what came to me is redefining what bravery is?\u00a0 Redefining what it means to be brave and thinking beyond the sort of stereotypes of bravery, I love that very much. \u00a0I also think you\u2019re absolutely right. \u00a0This is a great start of the year building belonging. \u00a0How do we want to hold each other in our classroom? \u00a0How do we want to honor each other\u2019s strengths and weirdness\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie<\/strong>:\u00a0 We forgot to mention one of the really important characters in this book, Parker.\u00a0 We don\u2019t have to say a lot but people need to know this is a dog book.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey<\/strong>:\u00a0 Yeah, it\u2019s true. \u00a0That\u2019s so funny that we haven\u2019t even mentioned him because he\u2019s usually like the first thing that students talk about when I go and talk to their classes.\u00a0 Yeah, so on that first page, they\u2019re having Cyrus\u2019s 11th birthday and a dog, a stray dog shows up on the on the firehouse step right where Cyrus was left 11 years ago as a baby. \u00a0And so, he immediately forms this bond with this dog and he wants to keep it. \u00a0But his dad has this like strict, no, no pets, no way policy. \u00a0They quickly take it to the animal hospital. \u00a0And he\u2019s put into a humane society.<\/p>\n<p>His dad says, you know, don\u2019t visit it. \u00a0We\u2019re not visiting this dog. \u00a0We\u2019re not naming this dog because it\u2019s not our dog, you know, we don\u2019t want, you can\u2019t get close to it because it\u2019s not ours. \u00a0And Cyrus, he just can\u2019t. \u00a0He just can\u2019t. \u00a0He has to.\u00a0 Because he loves this dog. \u00a0He feels a really strong connection.\u00a0 Now, he was the only one that the dog would approach at the firehouse and so he feels like he feels in some ways that he abandoned Parker and he just wants to go back. He names the dog Parker because he parks his nose right on Cyrus\u2019s left shoulder.<\/p>\n<p>The book is also about him trying to figure out, you know, that\u2019s one of the secrets in his heart.\u00a0 Like, how do, I am actually sneaking to the Humane Society and visiting this dog for dog walking hours. \u00a0And how do I tell my dad that actually this is something I really, really want. \u00a0I really want this responsibility. \u00a0I really want this love in my life. \u00a0There is a big dog part of this story too.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0I love that because it feels like the op, it\u2019s a fake but it\u2019s the opposite of a fake, right.\u00a0 So, often Cyrus is faking things so he can get out of things he doesn\u2019t want. \u00a0But then there\u2019s this big switch when he\u2019s faking in order to get into something that he does want, when he\u2019s finding his truer self, so, good.\u00a0 Gives me chills.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Thank you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Jeanie:<\/strong> \u00a0Lindsey, I want to thank you so much for this beautiful book. \u00a0And thank you so much for joining us to talk about it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Lindsey:<\/strong> \u00a0Well, thank you so much. \u00a0It was so great.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Are you wear-your-mask-in-a-pandemic brave, listeners? Or get-vaccinated-when-needles-scare-you brave? On this episode of the podcast, we&#8217;re joined by Vermont author and educator Lindsey Stoddard, who&#8217;s here to talk about her new middle grades book, Brave Like That. We&#8217;ll talk about the many different kinds of brave you can be, along with how students know that tiny &hellip; <\/p>\n<p class=\"link-more\"><a href=\"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/vted-reads-brave-like-that\/\" class=\"more-link\">Continue reading<span class=\"screen-reader-text\"> &#8220;#vted Reads: Brave Like That&#8221;<\/span><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":54,"featured_media":29134,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1004],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-29133","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-vted-reads"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29133","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/54"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=29133"}],"version-history":[{"count":10,"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29133\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":40924,"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/29133\/revisions\/40924"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/29134"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=29133"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=29133"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/tiie.w3.uvm.edu\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=29133"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}